Arguing on Facebook is for idiots. No matter how eloquent your argument you piss people off. No one changes their mind. It usually devolves into name calling and ends friendships. Although, sometimes the name calling is really fun! It’s idiotic, but I get pissed and fall into the trap every time. So I’m the moron. Always! Upfront, I’m the asshole here. I’m right, but I’m the asshole.
So my friend went to see a Led Zeppelin cover band and I’m proud of him because he in the past probably wouldn’t for reasons I won’t mention, ever go to an all ages show, but this was one. AND I LIKE ZEPPELIN!
So he joyfully and very sanely wrote a post about it and it was a fun post.
“Seeing 10 year olds mouthing Zeppelin lyrics makes me think the world is gonna be OK”
So I honestly in mostly fun responded with this.
“On the one hand yeah it’s cool that 10 year olds like Zeppelin – on the other – Zeppelin lyrics aren’t exactly poetry – some of the worst lyrics ever – most of Plant’s more experimental stuff makes Whole Lotta Love seem like Dylan – But Rock On!”
This was a joke for two people, the original poster and another friend who loves to make me mad on Facebook by belittling Bob Dylan, saying he sucks, he’s overrated, he can’t sing. Mostly, he idiotically maintains Donovan was better. And hilariously it works every time. I go crazy and we go to war and ruin people’s threads.
At that point no harm no foul, but I have a right wing friend who is a very nice guy who is very religious and I think his politics are as horrid as he thinks mine are. Of course, you should never discuss politics or religion, ESPECIALLY on Facebook. I’m in reality not just a Jewish atheist, but I am often anti- religion, especially when it comes to the type that endorse a pedophile like Roy Moore.
I respect his religion, but he has a lot more money then me and he’s earned it, but I think he blames every social ill on poor people, which I don’t find to be very Christlike.
I consider him a friend, but we aren’t “Facebook” friends because we used argue and make asses out of ourselves and some were low blows that I regret. Many friends and relatives need to unfriend each other to save their relationships. I purposefully decline relative Facebook friend requests because I know my timeline would make them hate me, which at first I didn’t care about but realized finally that it wasn’t worth the hassle.
I like to write and have thoughtful discussions, but I should know that can’t happen of Facebook. But like Michael Corleone said “Just when I think I am out they pull me back in!”
My right wing friend is a Facebook friend of the original poster and decided to poke the bear – me. Had it been my Dylan joker friend I wouldn’t have gotten so angry I would have hit the ha ha button and it would have been done.
But….
“I’d be more worried about the world if I saw 10 year olds mouthing Dylan lyrics.”
Note I never said that 10 year olds should be singing Dylan lyrics (although I do), I merely said most Robert Plant lyrics suck and they equally do. You listen to Zeppelin for the music stolen from African-American blues artists or the guy who actually wrote Dazed and Confused. Zeppelin has paid off a lot of lawsuits, but they stole well and played marvelously. You can recognize John Bonham instantly just because of how hard he hit those drums.
Bear poked and though I never get angry in person, on Facebook I have a vile temper sadly.
So I responded.
“um yeah it would be a shame to see a ten year old who knew the lyrics to Blowing in the Wind, Only a Pawn in their Game, or Masters of War. Worst take ever – congrats”
Then he responded
“ No it would be a shame that a 10 year old would be world-weary, jaded, and cynical enough to appreciate Dylan’s lyrics. It would be a shame if a 10 year old identified more with “You’ve thrown the worst fear that can ever be hurled Fear to bring children Into the world” than with “There’s a lady who’s sure All that glitters is gold and she’s buying a stairway to heaven”
“And if you think a 10 year old should appreciate Pawn in their Game or Masters of War, then I’m sad for you. The only thing a 10 year old should worry about is will it rain today when we go to Cedar Point.”
Actually that Dylan quote from Masters of War still seems pretty pro-children to me. Should we tell our children “War is awesome”? Plus Masters of War is not CYNICAL, world-weary, or jaded. It was sincerely written by a young man, who was ANGRY, and it is a non-Jaded threat to the evils of the military industrial complex. Cynical, jaded people don’t threaten and wish their opponents to disappear off the face of the earth for their evil in the name of profit.
Didn’t a president of the USA and the most accomplished General in US History say the same thing to the whole nation, children included?
And of course now I was livid. Just pissed off and as angry as Donald Trump is with Jeff Sessions.
So I said
“yeah much better that a ten year old know
‘Squeeze me baby, ’till the juice runs down my leg
Squeeze me baby, ’till the juice runs down my leg
The way you squeeze my lemon, I
I’m gonna fall right out of bed, bed, bed, bed, yeah”
than
“How many years can a mountain exist
Before it’s washed to the sea?
Yes, ’n’ how many years can some people exist
Before they’re allowed to be free?
Yes, ’n’ how many times can a man turn his head
Pretending he just doesn’t see?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind’ – still worst take ever –
and the lyrics to Stairway to Heaven are hardly wonderful – you want a ten year old to be obsessed with gold and buying their way to heaven? – and how do you explain what ‘If there’s a bustle in your hedgerow don’t be alarmed now’ means?
and of course you would believe that your child should believe that you should do this “And she’s buying the stairway to heaven” – Is that how you expect to go to heaven?”
So I was the asshole because I just brought religion and money into it, but hey he was the one that poked the bear! He knew he was baiting me.
And I am so bad I post twice or more in a row and wrote
“Gee it would be terrible for ten year old to know that rich people use racism to divide the poor or that rich people use war to make money – I was a lot more mature as a ten year old than you were and my parents docked their boat at Cedar Point and we went there every weekend”
And then
“ Dad will it rain today at Cedar Point?”
He then came back with:
“Yes it would be terrible. And it’s a pity you don’t think so too.”
Now the bear is ready to kill!
“Infantalize your children and they will stay that way”
Of course neither of us have children, but I’m an Uncle and I take it seriously and I coached little league and still consider all of them my children. I also could have gone lower about this, but even I wouldn’t do that.
This is my goddaughter which is a big deal to me because my godmother never had kids too, and I was a huge deal to her. She just finished her freshman year at University at Maryland and when she was young I bought her an iPod and filled it with my favorite rock songs for kids. Her favorite was “Should I Stay or Should I Go” by the Clash. She has her own music now but she still has those songs as well as the movie The Princess Bride, which I put on there and happily it remains her favorite movie of all time.
Here is what I gave her and considered songs for children 415 songs for Nicole
No Zep or Dylan, but lots of Beatles the ultimate children’s music, lots of 50’s music, and a surprising amount of Prince.
This kid is in his 30’s now and I consider him to be the closest I’ve ever had to a son!
Sigh, but back to arguing.
Me: Betsy Devos: Should we teach kids in school about Nobel Prize winners in Literature or about guys who wrote nearly every song about fucking and had a guitarist who lived in Alister Crowley’s house and did this?
Jimmy Page Dated a 14-year-old Girl While He Was in Led Zeppelin
THE BACKSTORY: Lori Maddox was a part of the Los Angeles groupie scene beginning in the early 1970s. According to Maddox, Page became infatuated with her and had a roadie bring Maddox up to his suite at the L.A. Hyatt House. “[He was] wearing this hat over his eyes and holding a cane,” she remembered. “He looked just like a gangster. It was magnificent.” The pair went on to have a torrid affair over the next few years.” – you should do stand up comedy – but then again everyone endorsed Roy Moore too so what the hell do I know
More me: Poetry for the kids! –
You need cooling
Baby I’m not fooling
I’m gonna send ya
Back to schooling
A-way down inside
A-honey you need it
I’m gonna give you my love
I’m gonna give you my love
Want to whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
You’ve been learning
Um baby I been learning
All them good times baby, baby
I’ve been year-yearning
A-way, way down inside
A-honey you need-ah
I’m gonna give you my love, ah
I’m gonna give you my love, ah oh
Whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
Want to whole lotta love
You’ve been cooling
And baby I’ve been drooling
All the good times, baby
I’ve been misusing
A-way, way down inside
I’m gonna give ya my love
I’m gonna give ya every inch of my love
I’m gonna give ya my love
Hey!…
Shockingly, I have suddenly become Tipper Gore. actually my other niece listens to nothing but songs with the word Fuck in them 100 times, and all the songs are about drugs and sex, but she doesn’t swear or use drugs and isn’t promiscuous. Most kids are fine.
More me:
Yes when bob Dylan sang at the March on Washington w MLK he was chosen for his cynicism
A cold dagger from me:
If I had kids one lesson I would teach them is “Don’t prick a bear by being a prick” peace
Of course this continued elsewhere on the thread because of course it did – a nice woman wrote:
Right!! My son has Money saved to his playlist ? That’s the only Pink Floyd song he acknowledges but it’s a start!!
To which before the original fight started I honestly with no ill intent wrote:
Make sure he knows what it means because the president and most of America don’t.
And my conservative friend probably doesn’t know what the song means because he probably believes in Prosperity Gospel, but decided to look like the sane one (neither of us are sane):
Good lord, Brad, get some fresh air and sunshine.
Me madder now, which sort of means he’s winning:
I live every day in the sun – you prefer to live in the darkness, but I understand Irony and know why this song was written and what it really means – do you?
Him feigning innocence:
Watch the Three Stooges or The Wizard of Oz or something.
Me still pissed:
I have and I understand the meaning of that too – you were just scared of the flying monkeys – “Political interpretations of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz include treatments of the modern fairy tale (written by L. Frank Baum and first published in 1900) as an allegory or metaphor for the political, economic, and social events of America in the 1890s.”
I’ve seen the stooges too they were Jewish do you know about them?
I just called him a Nazi. Godwin’s Law has been realized!
Same tactic from him continues:
Fly a kite, maybe? Plant some flowers? Play with some puppies? Have some ice cream?
Again I’m the one showing anger, which means he is winning, but from me:
Fiddle while Rome burns – all good ideas – thank you for your world advice – I spent my teens learning all about rock and roll and you know what I learned – a social conscience
Keep kneecapping the arts in Education too
Fortunately, at this point my supposedly “anti-Dylan” friend started making fun of me and I cooled out and posted the only thing I probably ever should have posted
This which is wonderful and so great for kids! Again Betsy Devos would hate it but:
So again I WAS THE ASSHOLE, but I do care about kids and education, but I’m better if I cool out and think before I write.
Very quickly after swords were drawn I should have just wrote this and exited.
When (name redacted) was so upset with my suggestion that 10 year olds know Dylan lyrics instead of Zeppelin – i went off – i pwned him but I went off.
The easier way to do it would have been to point out that Dylan’s hero and biggest influence was Woody Guthrie – who went around with a guitar that said “This Machine Kills Fascists” and sang songs.
One song of Guthrie’s was so patriotic that we teach it to all our 5 year olds in kindergarten It’s called “This Land is Your Land” and it’s a classic – I’m sure even Donald Trump knows some of the lyrics. Some teachers probably understand it, but even if they do they don’t teach it’s true meaning. It’s just a cool singalong about how wonderful America is and telling you how wonderful America is – well, that is what kindergarten is essentially for – social conditioning. It’s considered a folk song so at least when I learned it, it didn’t come with a bio of the author and especially nothing about fighting fascists with a guitar.
Donald Trump probably hates Woody Guthrie because Guthrie wrote a song about how his father Fred was a racist slumlord. It was called Old Man Trump and even made a reference before it was built to to Trump Tower!
But Donald probably likes This Land Is Your Land and maybe even knows more of the lyrics to it than God Bless America. Luckily, I’d bet my life that he doesn’t know that Woody wrote it. But Donald shouldn’t like This Land is Your Land and maybe 5 year olds shouldn’t learn it, but Donald is stupid.
Donald and maybe (name redacted) probably don’t know that This Land is Your Land is a song about the greatness of SOCIALISM! He meant this land is all of our land!
But Rock on Kids! I had to grow up like this:
In the end:
As for 50 year olds and politics – both combatants are in their 50s!
The best statement about it was made here when a bunch of old liberals gave a young guy with a guitar writing political songs their Thomas Paine Award at the Emergency Civil Liberties Union’s (E.C.L.U.) annual Bill of Rights dinner.
They were not pleased with the recipient’s speech. Which can all be read here Bob Dylan’s Thomas Paine Speech Still True and Relevant 50 Years Later
Here are the highlight’s as read by Martin Scorcese and yes Dylan was drunk off his ass, but ….
I haven’t got any guitar, I can talk though. I want to thank you for the Tom Paine award in behalf everybody that went down to Cuba. First of all because they’re all young and it’s took me a long time to get young and now I consider myself young. And I’m proud of it. I’m proud that I’m young. And I only wish that all you people who are sitting out here today or tonight weren’t here and I could see all kinds of faces with hair on their head – and everything like that, everything leading to youngness, celebrating the anniversary when we overthrew the House Un-American Activities just yesterday, – Because you people should be at the beach. You should be out there and you should be swimming and you should be just relaxing in the time you have to relax. (Laughter) It is not an old peoples’ world. It is not an old peoples’ world. It has nothing to do with old people. Old people when their hair grows out, they should go out. (Laughter) And I look down to see the people that are governing me and making my rules – and they haven’t got any hair on their head – I get very uptight about it. (Laughter)
He later sort of apologized with a long poem, but his defense was basically “just be honest, Dylan, just be honest”
Bob Dylan was given the Nobel Prize for literature. He hasn’t lost his hair yet, but he is well over 30. In fact, he’s 77.
True to his word, Bob Dylan stopped writing about politics almost completely at a very young age. Instead he went electric and played blues – way before Jimmy Page formed Led Zeppelin!
Obviously, that pissed people off too – mostly liberals!
Hilariously enough, old Bob Dylan went to his grandchildren’s kindergarten classes and sang them songs although not his own!
One other time Dylan was seen as crazy during a speech he said this, which very few thought was sane at the time. I loved it though.
The Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award, 1991
The Gulf War had just begun when the Grammys gave Bob Dylan a Lifetime Achievement Award. Before playing a radically reworked “Masters of War,” Dylan walked up to the podium after a gushing speech by Jack Nicholson.
Bob Dylan: Well, um … yeah … my daddy, he didn’t leave me much, you know he was a very simple man, but what he did tell me was this, he did say, son, he said …
[long pause, nervous laughter from the crowd]
He said so many things you know.
He said, you know it’s possible to become so defiled in this world that your own father and mother will abandon you, and if that happens, God will always believe in your ability to mend your ways.
[walks off]
Most of the mocking was because though Masters of War rocked that night, he was nearly unintelligible and most people didn’t even know he was singing Masters of War!
He was so incoherent (to the unhearing at least) that Saturday Night Live ruthlessly mocked him. Funny, but ruthless.
Dana Carvey played Bob – David Spade came in to translate as Tom Petty – it is hilarious, and you can see it here SNL Dylan sketch
So as Bob said even though I was the ass I hope God believes in my ability to mend my ways.
Meanwhile, young people got political again, which had to please Dylan, who of course stayed out of their way.
OK, she has no hair, but you still get Dylan’s point or at least I do.
Rock on Kids!!
